Rob: Welcome to another edition of the Lifestyle Design Confessions Podcast. I’m Rob Murgatroyd of Getjetsetmoney.com and today we have Justin Wright of www.Lifeafterthecubicle.com. Justin started out like most of us did. He went to college, he got a degree, he got a job and landed in a cubicle. He said, “Hell no! Something’s going to change here.” We’re going to get into all of that and exactly what he did to make the change. Justin, are you there?
Justin: Yep
Rob: So without further ado, I want to ask you a few questions. Just by way of background, could you take us from graduating college to the moment when you were sitting in your cubicle and you know, you hit that tipping point.
Justin: Yes. I graduated college and you know, you kind of feel like, “Okay, I finished that whole part of my life.” And now you’re kind of wondering where you’re going to go next; so I didn’t want most people did and started sending resumes everywhere and finally I got a job doing something related to my degree and at that time it paid very well to someone used to doing college-type jobs that the money was definitely something there that kind of attracted me. I took the job, started working there and at first it wasn’t so bad; it’s kind of nice having a real job, you know what people call them anyway and eventually after about 2 years of working in a cubicle, I started to get pretty much anxiety where I go into work and I’m just like, “There’s got to be something else to life.” Besides just sitting in this cube everyday and maybe working an hour or two of actual work every day and then the other 6 hours was just pretending to be busy, you know waiting for the clock to hit 5 so I could finally go home. And it just hit that point where I was like, “Something has to change.”
Rob: And so you made the change. You sort of refer to your lifestyle as a digital nomad. What do you mean by digital nomad?
Justin: To me digital nomad is basically just somebody that can you know, you can do whatever it is you like doing in terms of work but being a digital nomad means that you can bring your work with you regardless of where you are; you know if you want to travel, if you like to move a lot. So it kind of lets you be a nomad but you can use the digital aspect to keep doing whatever it is you enjoy doing and you can kind of move around and not have to be looking for jobs and finding a way to make money. So it’s kind of a term I really…I heard it somewhere; there’s a site like digitalnomad.com I think is where I first heard it and I really liked the phrase “digital nomad” so I try to use it as much as I can on my blog.
Rob: Alright. So now you got the freedom of time and mobility, could you describe what it feels like to have that and you know, how has your life changed as a result? What type of stuff do you get to do now and how many hours a week are you working?
Justin: At first it feels liberating. It feels like I can finally…you know I can do the things I enjoy doing and it’s not like you have a certain schedule where every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday you have to be at work from this time but now I still work a fairly good amount; I probably work about 30 – 40 hours a week just like the other job but I work with clients. You know I help them build websites and stuff and the thing I enjoy is the fact that I can plan according to whatever it is that I want to do. So if I want to go on a backpacking trip for a week, 2 weeks, I can just put my work aside and pick it up when I get back and it just gives me so much more freedom to kind of do the things I enjoy and especially when it comes to moving and that’s one of the things that I’ve always enjoyed is I always have a hard time figuring out where it is that I wanted to live so as soon as I started making an income through the internet, I started moving around a lot. So I kind of moved to Hawaii and then I lived in Arizona and then Texas and now I’m in Florida right now…so it’s kind of nice being able to hop around and just enjoy everything that there is out there
Rob: So you made the decision how long ago to live a sort of a digital nomadic lifestyle? Was that about a year ago?
Justin: It’s been…let’s see, October will be the 2-year anniversary of me quitting my job so…
Rob: Okay, but who’s counting, right? (laughs)
Justin: Yeah (laughs)
Rob: Okay so two years ago and then…part of what you are able to do is you are able to get on a plane and…where are you from originally? Where were you living?
Justin: I am from Wisconsin.
Rob: Alright, so you leave cold Wisconsin and you head out for sunny Hawaii?
Justin: Yep! (laughs)
Rob: How long did you live in Hawaii?
Justin: I lived in Hawaii for about 6, 7 months.
Rob: Okay, so that’s quite a bit of time. Where did you live in Hawaii?
Justin: I lived in Waikiki and then right in the heart of the tourist section of Honolulu.
Rob: Okay. So you pick up, you moved all the way to Waikiki; is there a moment while you’re sitting out there going, “How did I get here?”? I mean like, “I’m a cheese head. How did this happen?” Did you kind of have those moments?
Justin: Yes, I’ve had those moments. You know it seems like every time I move somewhere I’m just like you know, “How did I get to the point where I can be here versus there?” it just doesn’t seem like moving is a big obstacle anymore because it’s so easy now that you know it moves a lot that it’s not like something where I have to plan ahead, you know a year in advance and get everything squared away before I can go.
Rob: When you moved to Hawaii, was there a specific purpose in living in Hawaii? In other words, were you just curious and you said, “You know, I like the weather and I just want to check it out.”?
Justin: Yeah…one of the things I hated about Wisconsin was the cold winters so the first thing that I wanted to do is go somewhere warm and Hawaii just seemed like a great place to start and check it out. At the time, you know I wasn’t really interested so much in moving abroad somewhere else. I was like, “Well I can live all the comforts of the U.S. without actually leaving.” So Hawaii was a really good starting point.
Rob: Was it what you thought it would be?
Justin: Yeah. I mean I really enjoyed it. It’s a little too “touristy” for me but yes, I loved it.
Rob: Okay. So it seems like you sort of following beach locations, is that right?
Justin: (laughs) Yep!
Rob: Is there a theme that I’m noticing in your life here?
Justin: Yeah, I loved Hawaii and I moved to Phoenix for 2 years where there was no water whatsoever and now that I’m in Florida, you know I’m kind of back to the beaches but I already got my next move which is going to be sort of away from the beach so…
Rob: Where is the next spot?
Justin: Portland, Oregon.
Rob: Portland, Oregon. Okay. I just got off the phone with somebody from Portland, Oregon and they absolutely love it. So I want to talk to you a little bit about lifestyle design. Obviously you’ve read The Four Hour Work Week, yeah?
Justin: Yes.
Rob: Alright. And so you’ve heard Tim use that phrase; he’s certainly the one I think who has attributed to it but maybe somebody else did, I don’t know but he’s certainly the one who made it famous. Everybody’s got a little different twist on it. What does it mean to you? How would you describe what lifestyle design is for you?
Justin: For me, I just think lifestyle design is all about making the choices for your life. It doesn’t have to be everybody else’s life. It’s just for you to sit down and really decide what you want out of your life. You know, do you want to open a bakery? Do you want travel a lot? It kind of allows you to kind of really think down deep and figure out what it is you’re looking to get out of life and what your passion is about, what you enjoy doing and more or less you just kind of create a step by step plan that allows you to go out and make your dream life; you know something that’s actually realistic and something that you can actually do. I like the term and I just think it really is nothing more than creating the design for your life.
Rob: Now do you use Tim Ferriss’s actual “dreamline” spreadsheet to map it out?
Justin: I did not use the actual spreadsheet at all.
Rob: So if I were to sort of ask you to give me a snapshot of what your personal lifestyle design looks like; it sounds like you’ve got a change in your life coming up where you’re getting ready to head out to Portland. What’s that look like? Is it to…if you talk about the things you want to have, be or do, obviously you know one of those things to do is to live in Portland. Is there anything specific that you go after when you make these moves?
Justin: Yeah. When I went to Hawaii I did learn surfing; that’s something that I have always dreamed of doing especially with the new stunts you see people surfing and you’re just like, “Oh, that looks lie fun!” and I think the main reason why I decided on Portland is because when I lived there in Phoenix, I really got into the whole backpacking, hiking and outdoors type of stuff and after living in Florida now for about 9 months and I don’t think there’s even a hill more than 100 feet tall.
Rob: (laughs) Right
Justin: I’m just missing the mountains and it just seems like up there in the Pacific Northwest is just one of the places where it’s just wide open and you got a lot of land; you know you can just go backpack for days and get out and enjoy the outdoors.
Rob: So you talk about creating your lifestyle design plan around things that you’re passionate about; do you feel that most people don’t include the passion part in their life? And if yes, then why do you think that is? Why is passion taken out of this equation so often with people that are just stuck in a cubicle?
Justin: I definitely think people do overlook the passion part. They might consider that a little bit but I think they tend to not focus enough on the passion part. And I think the real reason why people do that is because they’ll go out and instead of looking for things that they can enjoy to replace their job or replace their income, they just start looking for how to make money. You know they Google ‘how to make money’ and stuff then usually all it brings up is all these different techniques that people are trying to share and stuff on how to make money; and then instead of focusing so much on what you’re passionate about, you’re just trying to do things because they have the potential to make money but what you kind of realize is that a lot of times that if you’re not passionate about something it’s so hard to keep going until you actually get somewhere because it seems like the first obstacle you hit if you’re really not passionate about what you’re doing you get really stuck and then your motivation level just sinks. So I think passion is something that you really have to have because it keeps you going even when you hit those rough spots; where you wake up one morning and you’re like, “Am I really doing this? Should I really be out looking for jobs instead?” I think passion is just something that will keep you along your path regardless if you hit a lot of road bumps, if it takes longer than you expected and it just keeps you motivated to keep going.
Rob: When you talk about ‘voluntary simplicity’, what do you mean by that exactly?
Justin: I refer to that…it’s basically when you decide that you want to live a simple life; you want to just cut down and you’re choosing to more or less to have less stuff. You’re choosing to do less things, you’re choosing to have less and in exchange for having more time, more freedom to do the things you enjoy.
Rob: So would you say that right now you’re living like you’re retired? In other words, let’s say you move 30 or 40 years into the future and you’re…how old are you now by the way?
Justin: I’m 24.
Rob: Alright, so you’re 24…let’s say that you’re 64 and you’re getting ready to retire. Do you think that your retirement would look much different than your life does right now?
Justin: I don’t think so. I think it’ll probably be fairly similar and I don’t think there will be a lot of changes especially if I still enjoy doing what I’m doing and as long as I’m still capable of doing that which shouldn’t be too hard considering most stuff are done in the computer these days so (laughs)…
Rob: The next question I would ask is, you know you’ve sort of been flirting around with different states within the United States but do you have any plans on going abroad and living this lifestyle internationally?
Justin: I have thought about it, yeah, and I think it’s something that I definitely want to look into some time in the future. I’m not exactly sure where yet but definitely something that I want to get out and try.
Rob: Okay. So, you know so many people say that you could never make an income online to do what you are doing which frankly is the exact reason that we created getjetsetmoney.com to show by interviews like this that there are people who are living this lifestyle so if anybody is listening and wants to become a member so that you can learn how to create the cash, to create your own lifestyle design just like Justin is, just go to www.getjetsetmoney.com. But Justin, if somebody says to you, “You know I can’t do this. I’ve got this job, yes I’m in the cubicle but I don’t see a way out and I mean this is just all I see. I just don’t know what to do. I don’t know how to do this.” What would you tell him?
Justin: I would tell him, “You know, I think the best thing that we can do is get started, trying different things while you still have your job.” You know, while you still have the security of okay, you know where your goal money is coming from. And if you have to go home after work at 5:00 and sit on the computer and read books from 5:00 until 2:00 in the morning to learn a different hobby or a different skill that you can apply to making money online and then that may be what it takes. It’s kind of what I did where I started building my business for almost a year while I was still in the cubicle and you know I just sit there as soon as I got home, I did it in the mornings before work and yes, I worked…it seemed like 20 hours a day but eventually when I hit that point where, “Okay, I can replace the income from my day job and finally quit.” It just felt so liberating. So I think the most important thing is just to get started and don’t focus so much on having to quit your job tomorrow but focus more on, “How can I start making an extra $10.00 a month online?” and then, “How can I make $50.00 online?” and just kind of keep it going like that and just try different things on the side and eventually you’ll hit something that really works for you.
Rob: I know that you put together a book. It’s called Life After The Cubicle. Maybe you can sort of just describe what that book is and how people can actually get it.
Justin: Sure. Life After The Cubicle is a guide that I created mostly because I get a lot of people that would fill up my content for my web blog and then say, “Hey, I really like your blog. I like what you’re doing. How can I do more or less what you’re doing?” so I was like it’s time to put together a book that kind of cover everything. So everything that I did up to the point where I quit my job and then it covers all the different techniques that I’ve personally tried in terms of making money online and then I kind of shared a little bit into those and kind of show you how you can apply them to yourself. And then I also covered some of the escape route, is what I call it and that’s some of the things that I did leading up to finally quitting my job. I was like evaluating my expenses and setting up a nest egg in case things got slow for a little while and I just covered the whole journey that I took so you can kind of follow and do something similar with your own life.
Rob: Well you know what; I cannot thank you enough for taking the time with us today. I know you’ve a lot going on with your life so I don’t want to keep you on the line but if anybody wants to get a hold of you or purchase your book, what’s the best way that they can do it?
Justin: You can go to www.lifeafterthecubicle.com. It’s where you can find my book. Otherwise you can check out my blog at www.lifeofjustin.com.
Rob: Well Justin, thank you so much!
Justin: No problem!
